[Whoopie24]

Your driving habits should dictate what you need. The low milage is somewhat over blown by some people. Keep in mind if you drive in the winter and keep the heat on and drive without regard to efficiency, you will only get 160 miles. If you want something that gets 50% more milage than that get something else.

My winter efficiency was 2.7 miles/kWh and spring efficiency is 3.3 miles/kWh. Each of those are average over 1000 miles city and highway driving. So my winter max range is 170 miles vs 210 miles in the spring. If I turn the heat/ac off and drive with efficiency I will get more.

Thank you this helps. Should I reconsider I wonder. I’m just scared to be driving such a fantastic premium product. The deal was just too good to be true. They will still honour it though. Whatever replacement order car I look nothing compares , nothing at all. Even if it does the price is too high, we don’t drive a lot of miles. I just want the comfort. , the premium , even my little boy loved it when we test drove the RZ. Heart is telling me yes, brain no 😞.

 

[FelineFreddie]

You appear to be making the this decision based solely on emotion alome.

Change your POV and look at your choice Analytically/Financially….

Will the vehicle’s capabilities match your requirements (does it have the necessary range per charge, etc.)?

Is there sufficient supporting infrastructure readily available (do you have access to affordable charging units. etc.)?

Is the vehicle pricing affordable to you?

Ergonomically, does the vehicle design fit your lifestyle comfortably?

Answer those questions. Then, I think you’ll have your answer.

Good luck…whatever your decision!

 

[ToCo]

ToCo , thank you. I’m in the uk and they do have Lexus reserve but as I’m leasing through another provider the Lexus reserve is only given to those who actually buy from dealer. Not included with lease. It’s in their T&Cs. I asked the dealer who the lease car is coming from and they said I cannot have and they only doing the handover etc. I heard that in USA the program is open to lease customers as well .

Sorry to hear! I think I remember you mentioning that already. What a bummer.

I agree 100000% with FelineFreddie. Answering those question should give you the direction best for you.

Like I've said before, go old-school: take paper & pencil, write down your top 10-15 USUAL driving scenarios from the last 2 years. If those match the daily capabilities between full charges for the RZ, you're golden. If they don't, the RZ is simply not for you.

 

[jeff.sherman.warever]

FelineFreddie made some very good points.

You have to look at what your needs are, and see if the RZ realistically fits those.

There's a reason the RZ is cheap these days; I saw an ad from a couple of dealers here in LA saying that there was $17,000 off from Lexus Lease cash. And that wasn't even the dealer dropping from MSRP. Everyone is hung up on the poor range compared to some of the "competition" and so nobody wants them. I've seen a dozen on the road since I got mine in July. I see a Rivian probably every single day I'm on the road. I see half a dozen Teslas in my own building's garage.

But don't make a decision based on what OTHER people think; if anything, it gives you an opportunity.

Someone mentioned getting 2.7 miles/KWh in winter and 3.3 miles/KWh in spring. It never gets that cold here in LA, but even though heavy regen can be efficient, even WITH regen, constant stop and go isn't going to be great, and that's typical for here in LA. Plus, I have the climate control on pretty much ALL the time, no matter what.

EVERY EV is going to have that charging delay. Yeah, some charge faster, and some (like Tesla) tend to have a larger charging network. But expect it will take at least an extra half an hour to an hour if you have to charge en route, regardless of what EV you have.

Whether that's a problem for you is going to depend on your needs. If you're always just tooling around town and will never hit the maximum range of the RZ and can just charge at home every night, then range and charging time is moot. But remember, the NUMBERS change depending on whether you're talking about an RZ or a Tesla or something else. What I mean is that if your average day is 100 miles each way, that's doable on a single charge in something like a Tesla but NOT in the RZ. But if you're going maybe 50 miles each way, it doesn't matter.

I've heard a LOT of people claim the Tesla is "luxury." No, not really. A lot of those people are younger, and are probably comparing a Tesla to a cheap Honda or something like that which they've had in the past. The RZ is a real luxury vehicle, made better, and with much better materials.

Trims vary depending on the region; here in the US, there's the "premium" and the "luxury." I've got the luxury trim for one main reason: the Mark Levinson sound system. Probably 99% of people couldn't tell the difference (the "standard" sound system is pretty darn good) but having worked in recording studios in my youth, I absolutely CAN tell the difference, and it was important to me.

It also has the fake suede seats instead of the fake leather seats, and frankly, I think the fake leather would have been nicer. It also has that kinda cool translucent electronic sunroof where you push a button and it switches between clear and translucent instantly. Neat feature, but I almost NEVER switch it and just leave it in the default translucent mode. I can't remember if the luxury came with the head up (for some reason, they don't call it "heads-up") display and the premium didn't, but I DO have that feature.

So, as FelineFreddie said, look at what you REALLY need, and what you really WANT, and then make the determination from there.

 

[imurrx]

The one thing that gets me some what annoyed is when watching reviews of EV, most of the time they focus range range and range on how poor it is. I understand that is a big point to many people. Here is some data.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Distribution-of-trip-distance_fig3_279853330

This is a chart showing the average distance per day a person travels in the US. If you charge your Rz to 80% daily , virtually 99% of your driving will be covered.

If you average 3miles/kwh, using 60% of the available 64 wkh of the battery, you will travel 115 miles. Charge every day and you will be fine.

That said, if you have long road trips, you will need to plan your trip and use ABRP. This is where all EV will have issues.

 

[jeff.sherman.warever]

The one thing that gets me some what annoyed is when watching reviews of EV, most of the time they focus range range and range on how poor it is. I understand that is a big point to many people. Here is some data.

View attachment 551

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Distribution-of-trip-distance_fig3_279853330

This is a chart showing the average distance per day a person travels in the US. If you charge your Rz to 80% daily , virtually 99% of your driving will be covered.

If you average 3miles/kwh, using 60% of the available 64 wkh of the battery, you will travel 115 miles. Charge every day and you will be fine.

That said, if you have long road trips, you will need to plan your trip and use ABRP. This is where all EV will have issues.

Problem 1 is the OP is in the UK, as I recall, so the numbers may tend to be somewhat different.

Problem 2 is that those are AVERAGES. It doesn't mean that any one person is going to be any particular place on the range requirement scale.

Only the OP will know what he's likely to do, and his needs will depend on that.

And daily isn't the same as occasional, nor does it relate to how OFTEN "occasional" really is, or the scenario.

I mean, if you go 50 miles a day, every day, but you go once a month on a 500 mile trip (each way), and you don't have another ICE vehicle you can use, then an EV is probably NOT for you.

On the other hand, if you do a trip like that maybe once a year, then renting a vehicle (or using the Lexus "free" rental service, if available to you) for those rare long trips would probably be logical, and an EV might be completely realistic.

My own personal case is like that... I work from home, and occasionally have to go to clients, or half a mile down the street to the grocery store. Very rare that I need to go further to a client - maybe a few times a year. And in those cases, adding in an hour or so to the trip isn't THAT big a deal. Had a much longer trip for a client (to Sacramento from LA) and had to stop 3 times along the route each way, and yeah, it took time, but I wasn't in a huge hurry, and... it was an adventure. If I had to do that often... nope.

But most of the time, I don't charge more than once every week or two, and that's at home overnight.

 

[hsinchu]

My view:

1. My RZ looks unique and cool (I have the pearl white version; I have not seen a 2nd RZ in the nearby areas yet).
2. My RZ had a very good lease deal.
3. I like Lexus quality and reliability.
4. I use it for local trips only (I have an ICE car for road trips).

 

[BillLin]

Even the 500 mile trips would not be an issue except if very cold out, IMO, provided the DCFC are about 50 miles apart at most. 170-110-110-110 mile segments plus or minus, and avoiding driving too fast should make the 500 mile trip possible within the car's constraints, and the stops do not have to be very long. It would be longer stops for the US bZ4X-AWD & Solterra, but not for the RZ.

I intend to do this in the not too distant future. I need to retire first. 😁 (realistically later this year, and I've already given notice to my managers)

 

[Whoopie24]

FelineFreddie made some very good points.

You have to look at what your needs are, and see if the RZ realistically fits those.

There's a reason the RZ is cheap these days; I saw an ad from a couple of dealers here in LA saying that there was $17,000 off from Lexus Lease cash. And that wasn't even the dealer dropping from MSRP. Everyone is hung up on the poor range compared to some of the "competition" and so nobody wants them. I've seen a dozen on the road since I got mine in July. I see a Rivian probably every single day I'm on the road. I see half a dozen Teslas in my own building's garage.

But don't make a decision based on what OTHER people think; if anything, it gives you an opportunity.

Someone mentioned getting 2.7 miles/KWh in winter and 3.3 miles/KWh in spring. It never gets that cold here in LA, but even though heavy regen can be efficient, even WITH regen, constant stop and go isn't going to be great, and that's typical for here in LA. Plus, I have the climate control on pretty much ALL the time, no matter what.

EVERY EV is going to have that charging delay. Yeah, some charge faster, and some (like Tesla) tend to have a larger charging network. But expect it will take at least an extra half an hour to an hour if you have to charge en route, regardless of what EV you have.

Whether that's a problem for you is going to depend on your needs. If you're always just tooling around town and will never hit the maximum range of the RZ and can just charge at home every night, then range and charging time is moot. But remember, the NUMBERS change depending on whether you're talking about an RZ or a Tesla or something else. What I mean is that if your average day is 100 miles each way, that's doable on a single charge in something like a Tesla but NOT in the RZ. But if you're going maybe 50 miles each way, it doesn't matter.

I've heard a LOT of people claim the Tesla is "luxury." No, not really. A lot of those people are younger, and are probably comparing a Tesla to a cheap Honda or something like that which they've had in the past. The RZ is a real luxury vehicle, made better, and with much better materials.

Trims vary depending on the region; here in the US, there's the "premium" and the "luxury." I've got the luxury trim for one main reason: the Mark Levinson sound system. Probably 99% of people couldn't tell the difference (the "standard" sound system is pretty darn good) but having worked in recording studios in my youth, I absolutely CAN tell the difference, and it was important to me.

It also has the fake suede seats instead of the fake leather seats, and frankly, I think the fake leather would have been nicer. It also has that kinda cool translucent electronic sunroof where you push a button and it switches between clear and translucent instantly. Neat feature, but I almost NEVER switch it and just leave it in the default translucent mode. I can't remember if the luxury came with the head up (for some reason, they don't call it "heads-up") display and the premium didn't, but I DO have that feature.

So, as FelineFreddie said, look at what you REALLY need, and what you really WANT, and then make the determination from there.

Thank you so much to you all very much appreciated I am really trying to figure it all out . But too much watching, reading is just made it so much more difficult.

This is my only chance to get into such a premium brand due to the great lease deal.

I think another thing is I’m just a bit scared to be honest too drive such an expensive car .

We are just two gard wirkibg people with a small child. can’t really afford a car like this if the offer was not there . No way. It’s going to be our only car too .

We want a car that I can look at and admire . I want the great comfort of the car , the premium inside and out. And a great drive. But at the same time not draw too much attention that I’m driving such a fancy car.

With an 8 year old we may need to go on long trip now and then but to be honest we have never done 100s and 100s of miles . But there might be a chance , we might. And here in the uk the Lexus reserve is not offered to lease customers.

I don’t want to be on edge all the time about the range or if I can put heating in or the cold air on or how I’m driving . It just seems like theres going to be too much thinking of so many different things..

I’m so tempted to reinstate the order . The lesse deal was on the Takumi model which I think is equveldnt to the luxury model.

 

[imurrx]

Jeff, I was providing information to help Whoopie24 to think how he should approach. I am sure we can find a study that analyzes UK drivers. They are out there. The one I posted was the easy to show people driving habit be it from here. The UK government website has information about travel habits. It does not show the same breakdown as I posted but I am sure if one spend 10 minutes searching then they will find one. As for the averages, it is unique to every person need. How many of us go on a round trip that is is beyond 200 miles (320km)?

My decision on overcoming the EV range was this. 99.9% of my driving is less than 180 miles in one day. I have only travelled 5 times over 200 miles in a single day since 2010-2018. Since then all the trips I have done can be done on a full charge or less. I have chargers at home and my summer house. If need to stay over night at family, I can do the trickle charge and have enough range to get to a DC fast charger on the way back. This works for me and may not work for others.

As I understand, Whoopie24 is asking for assurance to either validate or invalidate his prospective purchase. I only want to give him information that can help him make his decision. Now, only he can answer if he needs to go on long trips over the car's range.

 

[Ivenhoe]

To put the distances in the UK into perspective compared to the US - going from the south coast to the top of Scotland (so the entire length of the country) is only 700 miles. From Brighton to say Glasgow (after there the population really thins out) is 450 miles. Therefore a very unusual drive would probably not exceed 350 miles which means 1 charge and a charge near destination for the return.

Before Covid, used car prices here seemed to reflect an average of 12k / year or say 1k av per month. As it’s a mix of journeys, but reflecting the weather here is mild compared to the excesses in the US, that’s say 6 charges per month and on Ultra chargers that’s about 4 hours per month. If you’re driving say 350 miles you really should take a break so a charging stop wouldn’t really cost you any ‘lost time’.

Whilst the RZ, like a lot of the German EV’s, doesn’t have the theoretical range of say a Tesla, the time lost is really minimal. Doing say the 350 mile journey the Tesla would have to stop as well and the charge may save 10 minutes - neither here nor there, if you’re not doing it very regularly.

In my experience (only in the UK) I have never had any issues with delays or problems using Ultra chargers - the Zap Map App integrates superbly with CarPlay so you can check availability on the go and it’ll navigate to the charge points if you want. It seems to be like most things, if you’re prepared to pay a premium for say an Ultra Charger (here it’s about $1/kw) then there is availability, looking for the cheapest will probably mean others are doing the same thing.

Apologies for the long post but I think there is a lot of misinformation about ‘issues’ with EV’s by people who only drive a car for a review rather than a long term owner - also, I very much doubt they read the 1,000+ owners manual so complain that the system is not intuitive !

 

[Whoopie24]

Thank you so much to you all very much appreciated I am really trying to figure it all out . But too much watching, reading is just made it so much more difficult.

This is my only chance to get into such a premium brand due to the great lease deal.

I think another thing is I’m just a bit scared to be honest to drive such an expensive car .

We are just two hard working people with a small child. Cannot really afford a car like this if the offer was not there . No way. It’s going to be our only car too .

We want a car that we can look at and admire . I want the great comfort of the car , the premium inside and out. And a great drive. But at the same time not draw too much attention that I’m driving such a fancy car. But I know it will turn heads 😫.

With an 8 year old we may need to go on long trip now and then but to be honest we have never done 100s and 100s of miles . But there might be a chance , we might. And here in the uk the Lexus reserve is not offered to lease customers.

I don’t want to be on edge all the time about the range or if I can put heating on or the cold air on or how I’m driving . It just seems like theres going to be too much thinking of so many different things..

I’m so tempted to reinstate the order . The lesse deal was on the Takumi model which I think is equveldnt to the luxury model. Basically fully loaded with everything.

 

[hsinchu]

It’s going to be our only car too.

My recommendation is to buy a RAV4 Prime/RAV4 Hybrid/Corolla Cross Hybrid.

Keep the car for as long as possible, and save the money for your retirement and kid's education.

 

[imurrx]

My recommendation is to buy a RAV4 Prime/RAV4 Hybrid/Corolla Cross Hybrid.

Keep the car for as long as possible, and save the money for your retirement and kid's education.

This I can agree with. Car's are your worse investment. Kid's education should come first. Get a used Rav4 hybrid

My dad has the Rav4 hybrid. It cost the same $/mile to run when you do not factor in maintenance (Rz is less than the Rz). The Rav4 has more usable space and interior space. I could not find a Rav4 Prime in the trim and specs I wanted when my Q5 got totaled. A new Rav4 Prime would have cost more than what I paid for my 3000mile used Rz.

 

[Whoopie24]

Hello All . Thank you all for your advice. I was only going to lease the RZ for 2 years at a price that’s was cheaper than anything else out there SUV style. And a Lexus. The price It’s still locked it for me while I’m reconsidering. I like my cars so does my wife and even our little boy is fascinated with a nice car. So after 2 year lease we was just going to give back. No need to worry about depreciation etc. just enjoy the fantastic car. But my heart says yes but my brain is just telling me it’s just going to be too much hard work and too much to think about.

 

[pknopp1943]

Maybe a bit late to the party, but... be worried, or not worried, depending on what you expect.

If you expect to do a REALLY long trip, forget about it. Rent something else, or fly, or take a train, or whatever. You've got a bunch of things going against you.

First, the range is crap compared to something like a Tesla... but there's a few reasons for that. One major reason is that the RZ's BMS (battery management system) doesn't let you use as much of the REAL battery capacity as Tesla - but the reason is that it prolongs the battery life, so while a Tesla will degrade a LOT, the RZ's battery will degrade much slower. Another reason is that the motors simply aren't as efficient. Nor is the cooling/heating system.

Which means that you won't be able to go as far without charging.

Second is the charging speed. Also to protect the battery, the RZ charging speed slows WAY down over around 60%, and then down to essentially Level 2 speeds above 80%. So you could get 20% to 60% pretty quick (I'm talking about a DC Fast Charger), but from 60% to 80% is going to take a lot longer, and then if you want to get ABOVE that, expect to wait. Yes, all vehicles slow down above 80%, but not necessarily as much below that. And I've just found that even at a 150 KW charger, I don't get anything NEAR that (it may peak for a little while over 100 KW, but generally will wind up around 60 KW or worse). I've seen Ioniqs and ID4s charge at a MUCH higher rate than I can get at the exact same station on the same day and time (well, me right after them).

And... while I've never tested it, supposedly you can charge only THREE DCFC cycles in a 24 hour period!!! Now, I couldn't get a straight answer from anyone at Lexus (they even opened a ticket for me), so I'm not sure whether that's full 0% to 100% cycles so that two 20% to 70% cycles would count as a single cycle, or whether a partial charge counts as one or what. But supposedly, once you hit the limit, the BMS will limit you to Level 2 speeds. Which TRULY limits your distance that you can drive.

And, of course, there's the whole time thing. Drive, say, 110 miles (if your 100% to 0% range with radio and climate and such is 180 miles, your 80% to 20% range is probably more like 110 miles) and you're talking maybe a couple of hours of driving, depending on speed. And then... you're going to be sitting there for roughly an hour to get back up to 80%. And another 110 miles, and then another hour to charge, and so on. It adds a lot of time to a trip.

Ideal would be to leave with 100%, giving you a longer range to your first charge, and then being able to plug into a Level 2 at a hotel you're staying at. Then you could be back up to 100%, no DCFC needed, and then you can kinda "reset" the clock and also have the full range for your next leg. But not a lot of hotels seem to have chargers, at least not here on the West Coast in the US.

I've often left my car days on end and never lose more than maybe a percent or so. No way to know the 12v battery level that I can tell, but it has never been an issue, either.

Mountains make your range crap. Same is true with an ICE vehicle. Physics. You just have to take that into account.

Speed matters, too. The faster you go, the more wind resistance and rolling resistance, and so the more electricity you're going to use. Stop and go also is bad because acceleration eats juice. Yes, you get SOME of it back from regen braking, but remember, you're STILL using the physical brakes in true stop and go, or when having to stop QUICKLY (if you can crank up the regen level to 4 and then almost never actually step on the brake pedal, you'll get the best regen - but know that it won't actually STOP the car completely).

Another concern is the AVAILABILITY of chargers along your route. Remember, many seem to not work, so a bank of maybe 4 chargers might have only 2 or 3 that are working, and remember also that you may not be the only person charging, so you may have to WAIT an hour or longer for a charger to become available.

But...

I'm not trying to scare off the OP. I'm just trying to set expectations. The RZ is NOT a car for taking really long trips, period. If you're going someplace that's maybe a couple hundred miles before stopping, or maybe going someplace towards the end of your range, stopping, and then driving home, you're going to be fine.

It DOES take more planning than an ICE, where there are gas stations everywhere and you can fill up in 10 minutes and have a full tank. You have to plan your trips more carefully and figure out in advance where you're going to charge, and have some apps that can help you find chargers.

Teslas have better range, and better efficiency, but they're made like crap. The RZ is made like, well, a Lexus. Much better materials, better fit and finish, far more likely not to need a bunch of potentially expensive maintenance that may leave you without a vehicle for weeks or months (as many Tesla owners have experienced).

If most of what you do is tooling around town, and you've got a charger at home and can just charge it to 100% overnight, you'll love the RZ. If you occasionally go a couple hundred miles, you'll be fine as long as you understand that you'll have to plan things out and take a break of an hour or so while it is charging. And know that if you're going on a really long trip, you're going to have to rent something else.

Oh, and while the RZ LOOKS more like an NX than an RX, it is actually a bit of physics magic because it is more like an RX inside. I used to have a string of RXs, and had an NX loaner for several weeks, and I just couldn't fit the same stuff in the NX - but it all DOES fit in the RZ.

I'm a new '24 Lexus 450e leesee, Premium with 20" tires. Your comments are pretty much spot on. I am retired and 81 years old. So I don't drive more than about 100 miles a week. I have owned Lexus since 2013, gas and hybrid, and I have loved them all. But the 450e goes beyond them all in ride, performance, and quality. Yes, the gorilla in the room is RANGE. And if I were commuting I would agree that range is a greater consideration. But, setting that aside, this is perfect as a town car with occasional 100 mile trips. (I live in central Texas, and one of my favorite BBQ places is 45 miles away...😋) So make your choice accordingly. As for charging, I charge on 110v, 20A circuit from 9pm until 7am, and that yields 15% uptick. So I can drive battery down below 20% and recover in five or six nights of charging. Heck, with the Lexus app scheduler it is harder to use my slow cooker than to charge the RZ. My electricity is about $0.12 per Kilowatt, and 10 hours yields about 9KW, so cost is about $1.08 per 10 hour session...😌